Women in Tech: Career Paths For Women In Cybersecurity And The IT Channel

Tech careers are full of myths, and one of the biggest is that you need a perfect plan or a computer science degree to belong. We sit down with Fernanda Silver from Acronis, Adriana Ayadarola from Colossus Technology, and Chris Daggett from HubTech to get honest about what women in tech actually face and what really helps women grow in cybersecurity, managed services, and the IT channel.

Fernanda shares how she entered the channel through inside sales, mentorship, and a love of partner relationships, then built momentum by learning the tech along the way. Adriana walks through an unexpected journey from speech therapy studies into tech sales, then into cybersecurity staffing by leaning into a hard-to-fill niche and staying close to the real needs of security teams. Chris adds the long-view perspective on how IT career paths have become more flexible through certifications, hands-on experience, and relentless continuous learning.

We also dig into the parts people usually avoid: credibility gaps, the pressure of being the only woman in the room, and the importance of setting boundaries at conferences. Then we tackle diversity in IT and what hiring leaders can do to avoid “culture fit” becoming code for sameness. Finally, we get practical about AI and automation in cybersecurity: how tools can accelerate learning, why specialization matters more than ever, and what human skills like empathy and trust still win in sales, alliances, and leadership.

Subscribe for more conversations like this, share the episode with someone building their tech career, and leave a review with the advice you wish you’d heard earlier.

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Transcript

Welcome And Why Women In Tech

Announcement 0:00

Really driving the future of IT. Our leaders think secure, efficient, and ahead of change. Welcome to the Beyond the Firewall Podcast. Powered by HubTech, where we go past the headlines to talk with technology leaders, industry experts, and IT practitioners shaping how we work, live, and lead. Let's get into today's episode.

Adam Shaffer - Host 0:28

Hello, everyone, and welcome to another episode of Beyond the Firewall, Powered by HubTech. I'm your host, Adam Shaffer, and today we're talking about a topic that's incredibly important to the future of the industry: women in tech. Technology continues to shape how we live, work, and connect, but the people building and leading that innovation matter just as much as the technology itself. While the industry has made progress, women in technology still face unique challenges. Today's conversation is about real experiences, the barriers, the opportunities, and the lessons learned all along the way. Joining me are three incredible guests Adriana Ayadarola, Director of Staffing and Services for Cyber AI and Privacy at Colossus Technology, who has spent more than 15 years helping organizations build high-performing cybersecurity teams. Also joining us today, Fernanda Silver, channel sales and alliance leader at Acronis, with over a decade of experience driving growth, building alliances, and leading go-to-market strategy. And also I'm now three-time CRN Women of the Channel Award winner. And as always, joining me today is Chris Daggett, Director of Managed Services and Security at Hub Tech, bringing his perspective on infrastructure, security, and what organizations need to succeed. In today's environment, together we're going to explore the real stories behind careers in technology, how they got here, the challenges they faced, and the opportunities ahead. And advice for anyone looking to go and grow in this industry. Let's get into it and welcome to the show. Hello, everybody.

Adrianna Iadarola 2:14

Hello.

Adam Shaffer - Host 2:15

Great to see you. Thanks for joining us today. This is very exciting to have you on the show. So thank you very much. We really appreciate it, and it is really an important topic. And so, you know, I'm going to try and get some flow going here, but I just really want to start off with something that I think everybody wants to know.

How Fernanda Found The Channel

Adam Shaffer - Host 2:33

And I think I'd start off with Fernanda. And and and you know, a lot of people say women in tech, you know, there's not that many women in tech, but I'm seeing more and more as I go to shows and meet with vendors. But what actually drew you into tech and this channel?

Fernanda Silva 2:49

So I actually fell into it at the time. Um Pure Storage was looking for someone who speaks Portuguese, had sales experience, and that's just how I started in the in the channel industry. I did not know like anything, like, you know, I was in the um finance sales before I worked at a bank. I did not know about all of this partnership sales, you know, companies not selling, you know, direct and selling 100% through the channel. And so I started at uh Pure Storage, gosh, back in 2014. Um that's I was in inside sales. The the inside sales team was in one side of the office, and the channel team was on the other side. And I would always build good relationships. I actually had um an in uh informal mentor uh that I would always like talk to him. And also there's another person within the uh partnership marketing side that every now and then, like I would see her like in a conference room, and she would be like, Hey, can I can I ask your opinion? Can I show you something? And just her one in my opinion um allowed me to get into the industry. And, you know, I quickly got so interested in the channel account management and the building relationship with partners that later on I moved to an inside uh channel account management position um for uh North America. So that's how I jumped in. Um, but it was truly like showing my interest, like eager to learn. First of all, learn about tech. Like they gave me like a course, right? On you know, servers.

Adam Shaffer - Host 4:43

I was gonna say, I was gonna say it's not like you you were looking for tech. They wanted the Portuguese, you didn't know about tech. You like the relationship part, you like the channel part, you liked all that, and the tech kind of came later.

Fernanda Silva 4:56

Yeah, it all came, yeah. They all came together and later, right? Like learning about channel and tech, it all came together. Um, but no, I had no experience within clex sales, right? Yeah.

Adam Shaffer - Host 5:11

And so pure pure is pretty uh technical stuff. So my God. And and so, yeah, I I know I know them well. Um Adriana and you, you know, what what got you into the into

Adriana’s Path Into Cybersecurity Staffing

Adam Shaffer - Host 5:23

the biz? And and then how the heck did you get into cybersecurity?

Adrianna Iadarola 5:28

Um, that's a good question. So I have you know been in the business now, I think going on 18 years in sales and teaching. Oh my. Yeah. So um, you know, I went to college for speech therapy and audiology. And ultimately I came out and it was like, okay, what can I make? Right. And I'm looking at like what I need to do in order to make some money. And I really, you know, fell upon like some sales roles and they were in technology. So I got my first job in telecommunication uh sales right out of college. And I immediately first year hit like what I would hit as a speech language pathologist, probably 10 years in. So I knew immediately that I wanted to work with people and I wanted to be in an environment that was fast-paced, and I wanted to be in something that was innovative. And so, you know, fast forward, you know, right four or five years in tech sales where I was doing like data center rack space, um, you know, really heavy like hardware technology. Um, and then I started to kind of dabble.

Adam Shaffer - Host 6:33

But you were but you were selling.

Adrianna Iadarola 6:35

But I was selling, selling, yep, through the whole time. Um, and then I fell into into recruitment. And the reason why is that I started to get recruited all the time. And ultimately they brought back to say, listen, have you ever thought of being a recruiter? You're just really good with people and matching and just making sure that you know you were organic and building that relationship and rapport. And I said, No, I never tried it. So they gave me a good offer. I went in and I just kind of, you know, kicked butt in it, and I was just focused within the the tech world.

Adam Shaffer - Host 7:09

Um, and then so is this as a company you moved to? Was it the same company?

Adrianna Iadarola 7:13

No, it's a new company I moved to. So I was being recruited to other telecommunication companies. And the recruiter that was that was pitching it to me was like, you know what? I think you'd be really good as like a tech recruiter in the tech world. And I said, All right, let me give it a shot. And so I jumped into it, spent about five years in kind of just like overall, you know, technology uh recruitment. And I found a gap where no one wanted to touch the cybersecurity positions because, you know, 15 years ago they were like, no one did them. They were like, oh, they're really hard to fill, there's not enough talent out there. So immediately I was like, hmm, I see a gap. So I jumped into it and I started building a really good book of business um at a previous client, you know, customer and whatnot. And ultimately it just grew. And then I was approached by Cyber SN, which was the leading, pretty much the founding cybersecurity focused staffing organization. And I spent 10 years building that business with Deadrew Diamond. Yeah. So it was definitely a great run. Um, I focused in the cybersecurity industry because I saw the need, right? I saw, you know, what they were doing. I was actually uh myself uh fell on, you know, where my identity was stolen when I was first graduating. And it took me years to navigate that, right? Through the federal government. I mean, someone was living as me. And yeah, so it was pretty scary. So the interest was there, the passion was there, and you know, I just stuck with it. And now I'm like 12 years just focused in the cybersecurity space and do a lot more than you know, just the recruitment side of things. I help businesses in many ways. So, you know, I'm passionate and love it. It's you know something that's kind of in my blood.

Adam Shaffer - Host 9:07

So but both of you got into tech and it wasn't tech you were looking for. You you were focused on helping people, and um, Fernandi, you were not focused on on tech either at all. And both of you fell into it and it you learned and and you grew, but it wasn't like I'm a compute, I'm I'm a computer science major and I want to go into the tech industry. It was like completely the opposite of that.

How IT Careers Opened Up

Adam Shaffer - Host 9:33

So um that's probably why you're good with people, but um that's that's great. Yeah, and and and and Chris, you know, you've been in this industry for a long time, and I guess the question I have for you is, you know, how how has career paths in IT changed over the year? I mean, have you been seeing more women in the the channel and not just the channel technology and not just technology and cybersecurity?

Chris Daggett 10:00

So uh what I've seen over the over the years is uh you know career paths have have become uh you know more flexible and accessible. Um you know, there's it typically has been uh a male-dominated field, but you know, there are a lot there's a lot more opportunities now than ever. You know, people are entering through certifications, hands-on experience, non-trad, you know, from non-traditional backgrounds. You know, Fernanda and you know, Adriana pretty much, you know, you know, they that's the path that they had. Um you know, it's not just formal education. The expectation is, you know, continuous learning. You know, this is a field where you know we we have to continue to sharpen the pencil and you know continually learn new things. Are you know the folks that adapt, um, you know, are the ones that are gonna define success moving forward. So, you know, at the end of the day, it's all about the adaptability, um, especially with the introduction of you know AI and things like that, you know, that kind of levels the playing field for just about anybody, you know, whether you're a male or a female. And, you know, it's all about the adaptability.

Adam Shaffer - Host 11:15

So, Chris, was there a prejudice against women um if they were applying for uh technical roles, sales, or or even just uh engineers?

Chris Daggett 11:27

I think, you know, I I come from a you know kind of an engineering background. So I know in the engineering space it was pretty heavy, you know, it was a lot of a lot of uh technology, you know, geeks and things like that. You know, there were there weren't many um you know females that were very interested in geeking out to to certain you know heavy duty technology things, right? Um you know, back in the day, you know, where the women were striving is in the sales capacity. Um you know, but now I'm seeing, you know, the last several conferences that I've been to, you know, they're really penetrating the the leadership roles, the C levels, and things like that, which is which is great to see. You know, it's everybody has fantastic ideas and and you know women have a different perspective on things, um you know, just by by nature. So it's good to have you know an open mind. Uh that's gonna open a lot of doors, a lot of um a lot of new ideas. And you know, I I love it. I I absolutely love it.

Adam Shaffer - Host 12:38

Okay, cool, great. Um, I mean, I have two daughters, so I'm I'm hoping that the next life gets easier. Yeah, please.

Fernanda Silva 12:46

So um, so my niece, she just graduated from uh computer science, and you know, she was talking, she started working at Apple retail, and she was talking to me, she's like, hey, you know, I want to find a job outside of uh retail. And I'm like talking to her, I was just like, you should be in sales, you don't understand. Um, because I was like, hey, you with your technical background and with the charisma and how good she is with talking with people, I'm like, you will kill it. And then she's like, no, but I'm not a good salesperson. I was just like, no, no, no, you don't know that yet, but you are because you just need to be good with people, right? So I I want her to get into sales just because that's you know, that's where my heart is. Um, but I think for you know, uh young people that are graduating, especially females, um, sometimes they can, you know, have them in time like, okay, I gotta be, you know, the back of the computer, coding. Um, but there's so much opportunity out there that can be in sales, it can be marketing, recruiting, um, that they they can really leverage their skills. Yeah, they can be, you know, uh uh engineering or computer science that can transfer to pretty much any of these um um if if you're not an introvert, like if they if like you it sounds like your niece has a great personality, yeah, yeah.

Adam Shaffer - Host 14:16

Uh you tell me where the Apple store is and I'll go and I'll uh check it out. But she she has the opportunity because she's got the technical background and she's got the personality. Like that's what I'd love for my daughters to do is like make sure they have the technical background and they seem to be into it, but they have great personalities. Like, so I think that and and I think you both think that uh a really good technical salesperson could maybe make more than a typical engineer. Is that correct?

Adrianna Iadarola 14:44

To a degree, yeah. Yeah, it could be.

Fernanda Silva 14:48

I've from my time now, over a decade now within the industry, I've seen the solutions engineers, right, that saw that opportunity because they're they're also good in talking to people. And sometimes in their head, they just they just don't want to be like, well, I don't want to have to deal like with you know the CRM and putting all of that information and tracking opportunities and all of these things. And but the ones that do they see that okay, I can make more money and I still like what I'm doing, right? I'm still having that technical, um the using my technical background as well as now engaging directly with people and owning that opportunity, and they can see the upside, right? That they're making a lot more.

Adam Shaffer - Host 15:36

Yeah, no, so that that's good advice. This is becoming the women in tech sales show because we can get a lot more salespeople

Mentors And Champions That Matter

Adam Shaffer - Host 15:44

joining. But uh, Fernando, you mentioned it earlier on, but you had a uh a mentor, it sounds like at Pure. Tell like what was that about? I mean, I have a mentor, I mean, it changed my life, and I still he's 80 something years old. I still talk to him on a regular basis. He he's he he's he was like, I don't want to say my dad, but he doesn't like that, but um he he was like my big brother.

Fernanda Silva 16:06

Nice, nice. I had actually a few mentors throughout my career, um, but it started early on, more in an informal, um in the informal approach, you know, where I'm just curious to trying to understand, you know, what channel partnerships are. And that's what made me like, okay, I think that's what I want to do. Um, and so I had two people in the beginning that guide me through the partner strategy side and then the partner relationship management side. And that's that's what I'm like, okay, I'm gonna do this. And um how can I use what they they're providing me to then move to my next role? So then later I move to that inside channel account management position. Uh, but throughout my career, like I said, um I had other mentors, but more formal mentorship where I'm coming into sessions where, you know, like, hey, here are the things that I would like to discuss. How how would I get uh how do I go through this situation or how do I work on this contract negotiation? Um, because I I started dealing with so many different types of alliance partnerships, especially here at Acronas. Um, I had a few different mentors that had C-level experience uh that told me, like, hey, here's, you know, here's what's important for the the stakeholders, and here's what is important on the day-to-day with that relationship manager on the other side, right? Um, building that win-win and how the how does that translate to both companies? That's what I got to learn from all of these mentors. And also I had mentors outside of the industry too. I had amazing neighbors that are um, you know, regional VPs for pharma companies. Uh, I have another neighbor that she runs her own uh marketing automotive um um company, and I had another um neighbor as well that was at uh Intel for over 20 years.

Adam Shaffer - Host 18:25

So you're like mentor rich. I got like one mentor. Like you got a lot of these people. And and Adriana, what about you? I mean, did you have somebody along the way that was and maybe you still stay in touch with?

Adrianna Iadarola 18:36

Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Um so being in in kind of the tech scene and especially in recruitment, it's like looking and advancing women in their careers is like just been my passion. Um, I've loved to just really kind of take any technical background, not just sales, right? Like I I look at even the cybersecurity industry, right? And I speak to so many women and students, and I go to colleges and you know, help individuals in breaking into the market, breaking into the industry. And, you know, a lot of women come to me, and of course, you know, we talked about having that kind of more introverted, you know, personality, which might not be amazing for sales, right? Um, because it can beat you up a little bit over the years, but I've definitely given them like the soft skills, right? In order to, you know, get themselves in advance, because that's really what I was what I was taught through my mentorships. And I've had men and women mentors that really help me to advance and just understand the path, right? Um, you know, it's it's definitely an environment where it is filled with men, right? So looking to get you ahead of the game, even in sales as a woman or in technology. Um, you know, people look at it as like there's a roadblock, but there really isn't, right? It's it's all in your mind in the sense of like what you're capable of. Like, is there exterior forces that can make that more challenging? A hundred percent. But I feel like that's for everybody. Um, I definitely look at it in the sense of like empowerment, like you're a woman and you're capable, right? And that's kind of what I've always been, you know, taught in my mentors, um, which, you know, my previous boss and CEO is my mentor for many, many years. She still is. Um, I've gone to, you know, career coaching, where that's been, you know, mentorship for me too. Um, and then just making sure that I give that back to educational, you know, environments as well as like I run, you know, women in leadership, you know, meetups and focusing on like giving women paths in order to educate themselves and educate others. So it's uh yeah, it's always been a key thing in making sure that you have a person to go to when your strategy is like, okay, where do I go to next? And having a trusted advisor and a mentor, you know, being a woman and kind of navigating through different markets and industries and companies, it's always nice to have that sounding board. So I've been blessed to say the least.

Adam Shaffer - Host 21:08

Um I mean, I've had some horrible mentor. I was a horrible man, and and I have this guy who's super successful, he lives in England, and he tells me stuff I would say, and I how I behaved. And I'm like, I can't believe I would say something. No, no, it was good. Now it's like, I would why would I say it's horrible? And then maybe it was the times, but I'm like, I hate it. I I hate when he tells me this stuff, but he said, no, no, it really made him who he was and it made him tougher and it made him. It's like, oh, come on.

Adrianna Iadarola 21:40

You have to understand, like, mentorship is really adding the value of being honest, right? And being transparent. Like it's it's not candy coating things. It's not like, oh, let me look in the mirror and just say all of these affirmations and it's gonna turn around. I mean, there's some like grit that goes to it too, right? And having honest transformation. Transparent conversations, I think, is probably the most influential thing that you can do. And, you know, talking about the hard stuff and working through the day-to-days. Um, and I think mentorship is like really just like that pure honesty and you know, vulnerability. It sounds like I think I was too honest. That's not there, you can never be too honest because all you're doing is I think I mellowed.

Adam Shaffer - Host 22:26

I mellowed. I was fine. I I I really am embarrassed when he tells me this stuff. And he's like, You remember when you were with Microsoft and you said this? And I'm like, remember when you were with Apple and you said this? I'm like, oh my God, why would I I would hate if somebody said that to me, I'd hate them. Okay, so let's you know, so you guys had great mentors. I'm I'm Chris Chris had great mentors, I bet. Chris?

Chris Daggett 22:47

Oh yeah. Yeah, I mean, I I've had I've been on IT for geez, 30 years now. And um, I've had a lot of different mentors along the way, you know, as my role has evolved and and the different you know types of roles that I've you know had, um, you know, each one of those, you know, starting out as a desktop person and you know, evolving to where I'm at now, um, is is really uh an interesting path. Um, you know, and today I get to blend it all together, but you know, I I've accumulated a lot of different mentors along the way, and it's really helped um you know, mold me into what I do now. So okay.

Trust Challenges And Staying Safe

Adam Shaffer - Host 23:28

Well, that's that's awesome. So changing the topic. Now, this one might be a little more personal, but like, could you and and this is out to Adriana Fernandez, like whoever wants to jump in first. Like, like, yeah, what was your think about what was your earliest challenge that still sticks in your mind that you don't forget? And challenge is probably something that maybe wasn't positive, it was a but it was a challenge. Um, so so was it and was it because you were a woman or was it because of the situation?

Adrianna Iadarola 24:00

I would definitely say some of my biggest challenges were competing against other women.

Adam Shaffer - Host 24:07

Oh, other women?

Adrianna Iadarola 24:08

Yeah, yeah. Okay. I I think probably the hardest momentum for me. Um, because you know, I look at it from a from a sales perspective, right? Men, women, if you're doing a good job and you're making your company money and you're just hustling, they're not gonna step on you. Um I think from a technical's perspective, you know, I've definitely heard, you know, where it it can it can be a little bit more challenging. Um, but I think from my perspective, like majority of the the hard times that I I could see myself being in have been, you know, kind of competing against other women for next roles or kind of next steps within my career. Um and it can get definitely a little cutthroat, but I think that that's that's pretty normal. Um, I think of course, you know, if you're a woman in the market, like we've all definitely been in a situation that have maybe been uncomfortable or you know, put in a predicament that, you know, that's what I'm getting at. So what do you know? I mean, I've definitely put, you know, uh been put in positions where it's been, you know, um, you know, inappropriateness, right? Um, and I think that that happens, you know, pretty much in to most women, uh, when you're in a male dominant environment. And I'm not gonna say that it's like, you know, right at all. Of course not. Um, and I'm not gonna say like there's, you know, reasonings behind it. Um, but I think it's it's unfortunate, right? And I think that that's one thing, if any mentor can do, and which I've done for people that I mentor, is really just have honest conversations with them about it and you know, keeping yourself in a good environment, right? So especially, you know, women in technology, it's like going out and being amongst a bunch of men and you guys are out drinking or doing certain things. Like there's definitely parameters that you want to make sure to keep yourself outside of certain situations. And it's unfortunate, but it's it's just things that you know you have to avoid as a woman, just because you have to keep yourself safe, right? Men and women are attracted to one another. It's just the whole dynamics of life, you know. Um, but it doesn't make it right for people to step outside of the boundaries of that. Um, my biggest thing though is when alcohol is involved. Right then and there, it's like, you know, people's ambitions, you know, get like, yeah. It it definitely creates for, you know, an unhealthy environment. So, you know, that's one thing I think for my mentees is that, you know, be aware, be careful, um, and be mindful of that and the situations that you're in. Um, and never, you know, never veer away from, you know, speaking up. Um, and you know, even if it puts you in a very difficult position, because sometimes it can, especially if you're opening your mouth about somebody that's like, you know, big in the company or someone that's kind of maybe in senior leadership to you, um, because it can have negative effects. And let's be all honest, like you can, you know, derail your own career path there if you're, you know, you know, put in a grievance or something, and it's unfortunate and it shouldn't be allowed, but it is. And so it's it's very, it's a very messy path to walk as a woman. So there's my honesty right there.

Adam Shaffer - Host 27:40

It's something tell us about your early challenge or challenges.

Fernanda Silva 27:47

Yeah, um, I would say, especially for a young woman coming into the a men industry.

Adam Shaffer - Host 27:59

Male dominated industry, yeah.

Fernanda Silva 28:01

It's the trust, right? Because you men come in, they automatically, because they are a male, there's credibility. Women have to prove themselves. Right.

Adam Shaffer - Host 28:17

I was just I was just gonna ask you that. So do you think that women have to work harder?

Adrianna Iadarola 28:22

In some environments, I agree with that, but you have to pick and choose where you're gonna go in, because some I don't I like that I've been in, I I I feel like everyone had to prove themselves to be there, right? But I definitely see in other circumstances, like Fernanda's saying.

Fernanda Silva 28:39

Yeah, like with you know, relationship management, like you it starts a new partnership. That partner, their company, they don't know you. And especially if you're young, you know, it's the impression that's given. So it doesn't mean it's true. It's the impression that a female can get is uh they don't respect me. So you have to work harder and show to them that you do have the technical knowledge that you have um strategic uh experience that you can actually bring to the table and show them the path forward. Right. I think um and this can still be through um even as you've been in the industry for a while, right? When when you come into to the room, some and again, it sometimes can be just the woman perspective too, that you know, oh I have to say something smart, or you know, we're in discussion where maybe you're the only female in the room, and uh when the men look at you, you think it's like, okay, well, I gotta say something here that is gonna wall all of them, right? And and but again, it can be just a perspective, but not all males are like that. Um for me, yeah, I'm I'm lucky that you know I've I've had women um leaders and men leaders, but I love when like my VP Justin, he'll introduce me. He'll be like, Well, Fernanda is the one who's the boss here, and she even yells at me, right? So they they already know, like, hey, I'm coming in strong. So um, but you also so you have to have those champions too. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. So yeah.

Adam Shaffer - Host 30:33

Um I know, I I know, I know, okay. I'm sorry.

Fernanda Silva 30:38

Yeah, and I was just gonna say, uh, Adriana, to your comment about, you know, especially in a conference, you know, being around a lot of male. It's I've talked to other women before that I've seen that like they've dreaded a little bit too much. I'm like, hey, that's not how you should be carrying yourself. Independent if this is a work of men or not. I'm sorry, but that's just my, you know, my uh my thoughts on how us women should portray ourselves, right? We we gotta carry ourselves in a certain way. And I've talked to other females before that I saw like maybe drank a little bit too much. Um, but funny thing, so I was just at a conference uh last week at uh uh at a Caseya Connect, and I went to the bartend. I was just like, hey, can I have uh tonic with lime and put a cherry on it? And he was gonna give me a bigger cup because there was no alcohol, and I was like, no, no, no, no, no, put it on the little cup to drinking here, you know? Yeah.

Adam Shaffer - Host 31:35

I I went to a sales um conference, like where all the salespeople from all over the US came into one place, of course it was Vegas, and one woman got so drunk, like they they she missed her flight, she missed everything. We had to call her husband to come get her because I it was it was a mess. So anyway, I don't want to get into it. If you want to know their name, just DM me and I'll give you that. But um it it was I but it was it was really

DEI Hiring Culture And Team Fit

Adam Shaffer - Host 32:05

messy. So I know I know that DEI um isn't like it is is like a negative concept these days. I don't believe that at all. Like I'm I'm totally into it. And because again, I have two daughters and and um I I hate for somebody to to hold against them that they're a woman, but Chris, I mean, um what do you think organizations uh should do, can do to be better at supporting diversity? Because I I I just think that um what I'm seeing going on these days, again, I I don't want to get political, but I I'm I'm I'm I'm for uh diversity.

Adrianna Iadarola 32:41

I think I mean oh go ahead, Chris. We haven't heard from you.

Chris Daggett 32:46

Go ahead, sorry.

Adrianna Iadarola 32:48

No, no, no. I was just I was just gonna say, you know, being from a I had a hot button for you. Yeah, I mean, being from the recruitment industry, right? I mean, I've definitely had a lot of teams come to me and say, we need more diversity. And, you know, we would we welcome women or you know, different ethnicity, or you know, it's just this male-dominant white male, right? And I totally can respect that and I totally understand that. And but the challenge is too nowadays is it's like, you know, you can't you can't just hire based on things outside of the skill set and who's best for the job, right? So it's a really double-edged sword, right? When it when you're looking for that. And ultimately it's it's it's something where it's like you're seeking a woman that's going to fit in the skill sets that you know can get the job done. And at the end of the day, it's like when people are hiring, people hire people, right? People hire people that they, you know, get along with, you know, that they, you know, kind of mesh with a little bit more. And I think that that's really what runs into why you'll find an ex-dominant, you know, something, right, in any environment, not just saying white male, you know, if it's female, I've seen environments like that too, where it's female leaders and they have a very large female team. And that's because what's what's really kind of like who they've vibed with, right? And so my first thing is is making sure to break down that barrier, you know. So when you're hiring, it's not based on who you're meshing with, right? Because we can't be friendly and get along and the best person for the job.

Adam Shaffer - Host 34:32

And I just I and I see it as if the woman is the better person for the job, don't give it to the man.

Adrianna Iadarola 34:38

Well, exactly. So so here's my thing is like it is about culture, it is about personality, and I know companies want to keep that, but culture isn't necessarily just what the boss feels, right? Culture is such an environmental thing across all teams, right? So there should be really manageable expectations of like what type of environment we are, right? Culturally as a business, not just team-wise, right? And I think the dynamics of the team is ultimately where I see a lot of hiccups when it comes to bringing in diversity and why people are getting so, you know, hung up. And it's like, listen, DEI means like just bringing in outside, like thinking outside the box, right? Looking for, of course, who's got the best skills, okay, but also making sure that you're expanding kind of your expectation because again, majority of the time I see people hire people they like. If I see their personality traits being completely different, I know that that individual is not going to get the job, even though they should. And I think individuals need to understand like as a leader, you have to be a chameleon. Like you have to be able to manage and be in the environments against people that maybe aren't like you, right? And that's what diversifies the team. It's not just like, you know, gender, it's not just race, it's it's true personalities too. And that comes along with everything else. Um, so that's that's my big take on it.

Adam Shaffer - Host 36:09

Yeah, well, and can so Chris, why don't you expand? Because I know that you you live through this.

Chris Daggett 36:15

Well, you know, Adriana hit the nail on the head. You know, it's all about you know that differ diversified culture, and you know, men are good at certain things, women are good at certain things, you know what I mean? It's finding that blend, and that's what's gonna take technology and just this um Chris.

Adrianna Iadarola 36:36

You just totally screwed that one up. Men are good at this and women are good at that. No, no, no, no. We're all good at everything.

Fernanda Silva 36:49

Well, what maybe I was gonna say men are good at women are better at all their things.

Adam Shaffer - Host 36:57

And you know, and you know, when my my daughters play tennis against boys and they beat them, I love it. It makes me feel great. Chris, I'm teasing cry, make them cry. I'm teasing that.

Chris Daggett 37:09

There are certain things that you know women are are better equipped to do. You know, women are obviously better multitaskers than than men are, you know, which which gives them the you know the ability to you know do a lot of a lot of different things. You know, they're able to kind of you know take on things on the fly and you know move them around. And and you know, men typically can focus on one or two things at a time, and then they you know, they start to melt down a little bit, you know. Um but you know, it's I I think there's there's definitely some truth in that. And I know that you know, there are different industries, like um, you know, if you were to have a woman at the gun range, right? Um, historically they're better, better shooters um than men are. Um, you know, same thing with uh, you know, if if you hunt, you know, you do bow and arrow or anything like that. You know, there is data that supports that men that women are just are better equipped at that type of skill. Um you know, so I think that you know it's definitely there are places. I know you guys, you know, kind of you know busted me up a little bit, but you know, there there are places where um I think the women breaking into into technology are really gonna open a lot of doors and open a lot of um opportunity. And you know, it's I I am you know it's a welcome change for me. Like I am I am all for it. It's you know, I go to these conferences and you know, both of you guys can can uh you know support this. It's like you go to every booth and it's all you know, it's a bunch of guys, you know, for the most part. Sometimes, you know, historically it's the you know, whether it's marketing or sales, you know, that's the you know, where you would see the females. Now you're seeing them more in the technology, you know, the deeper um, you know, technology areas. So um I I think that that's great, you know, I really do. And it's just getting, you know, more and more, you know, the everybody's coming together, you know, for you know, we talk about uh in technology, it's all about the business outcome, right? Well, in order to to satisfy somebody's business outcomes, you gotta bring your A game. And you know, that's that's a blend. It's not one or the other.

Adrianna Iadarola 39:28

Yeah. And I think now as life goes on, I mean, stereotypes, I mean, even when we were kids, right? At my age growing up, it was like girls played with dolls, boys played with trucks, like, you know, that I think over these next generations we're gonna see where there is going to be, you know, more inclusive um kind of environments in all technology, right? And I think that the STEM programs, I definitely see a lot more young women coming into it. Um, I think that, you know, just the parameters that we used to put through generations into, you know, male dominant industries and female dominant industries, I think there's there's definitely, you know, going to be a huge separation, right? And I think it's an evolution of just all of us getting better with it. Um, but it's specifically in the tech world, like, yes, I go to so many events now, and there is a lot more women, right? And I love hosting women events, but there's a lot of things that go behind that, right? The women uh usually are maybe home with the children, right? They they work all day and maybe they have the kids at night and they can't get away to a certain event because of sporting, and they just have requirements that are on them, you know, that they can't get away, right? Um, so I definitely see there's there's a lot of like societal type things that keep women from engaging in maybe activities like that right now, which hopefully will change a little bit more in the future. But um, I do love seeing women at every event I go to and the numbers increasing and it's phenomenal. And then I also see groups that I go into that I am the only woman, um, which again, I still think is fine. I belong there. I'm very, you know, I I'm given the opportunity to be included in everything. Not given, but I have the um I have the right to have that opportunity to be in those rooms. Um, I find it empowering, you know, and I think that's just my mindset and my mentality. And I think others might find it, you know, a little different, but that's usually what I try to teach is really feeling like yes, I'm here.

Fernanda Silva 41:43

And I agree.

Adrianna Iadarola 41:44

Yeah, and I do I I deserve to be.

Fernanda Silva 41:47

It's a it's a mindset, right? And not right everyone has it. And that's either, you know, men or woman, right? It's it's the mindset that you have to have that is not like, oh, I feel like I'm being included because I'm a female, but I have the right to be included. Yeah, um, one thing that I wanted to add, you know, being Brazilian um and woman, for me, like I never felt that I had the advantage or disadvantage when interviewing for a job or even working with anybody because technically I checked two boxes, right? I never felt one or the other. I'm always just being myself. But again, back to the mindset.

Adrianna Iadarola 42:36

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And I think it's something we're gonna work towards. And, you know, it also depends on everyone's experiences because I definitely have spoken to a lot of women that are in the technology sector that have just been pumbled on and you know, have had struggle after struggle after struggle and trying to, you know, get their way to the top, especially as a woman in tech in leadership right now. And we are seeing a lot more women leaders, and I think men are just understanding and you know, they get this specific bias about them, you know, certain names or judgments are said, you know, and it's funny because like a male can do the same exact things and not have the names and the labels put on them. But as soon as a woman is like really showing her way, you know, she's she can be labeled as like, you know, bitchy or whatever that they write. So certain things. And I just laugh about it because, you know, it's the same similar stages and steps that every person goes through. It's just how people read and how our minds are programmed. Um, and it's just yeah, it it's it's bizarre, but I definitely want to make sure that, you know, paving the path for every woman to be in leadership and being advancement and just you.

Fernanda Silva 44:00

know taking that empowerment and giving them strength like that's that's where the goal is and the woman when they get to a higher level too they end up guarding themselves right you know and it's you you gotta you feel like at all times and you gotta be protecting who you are and then how you carry yourself and it just I don't know I just see that a lot of female C level and until you actually get to know them which not a lot of people then get to know them because they feel like they gotta you know portray themselves in a certain way to maintain um you know that status.

Confidence Versus Competence At Work

Adrianna Iadarola 44:44

Yeah but what you know I I met some great CEOs that are women and one I think about is uh Meg Whitman when she was running HP they they feared her but um they didn't think of her as Biachi but uh they she was so smart that they were a little intimidated by her but oh yeah they she was she was um she really commanded respect I mean they were guys and uh and and girls both uh they they I don't know if they all like working for her because she was demanding but she she demanded respect and nobody she I I don't think she was she I don't she was so confident I don't think she ever had some fear that you know she has to protect her boundaries I I think she also had gazillions of dollars too so I don't think she cared but um interesting so now we're gonna go into the lightning round but before we do Adriana I'm just worried I think you might have a grizzly bear behind you I'm not sure was he showing I thought it was a bear can I you know I've been reading a lot about that lately but anyway so just moving on to that lightning round I I love it I love it so quick quickly you either one Adriana or Fernanda first is it what's it more what's more important confidence or competence confidence or competence I'd say confidence confidence what'd you say what you do say Adriana I said confidence yeah so that's cool that's great I say confidence yeah yeah that's um see I think for me being in the tech world I I watch women come in with that confidence and not the competence and get eaten up because I've seen companies use that pretty girl they want to sell you know it's like that was one thing we put years ago RSA used to have what they call booth babes and we did this whole thing at my my old company and it was basically like we made such a stink about the booth babes that we had RSA ban them and these were women that they would be they would pay to come and actually work the booths that knew nothing about the technology just to drive right um but they really didn't know a thing. And ultimately what realized is like it drove a lot of people to the booths but it never really you know turned into a sale you get an empowered woman that knows what she's doing and is is at that level and is educated not that she's not competent is educated right so you take the time to educate a woman and give her the opportunity to show you what she's got she's gonna be a force right but that's the thing that these people weren't doing is they were not educating these women right and they were solely just using them on their confidence and their beauty and it really didn't result into much and that's where I've seen women walk in where you know it's just kind of past like for you Adam you have two young beautiful daughters like you know most men aren't going to be blown away just by a pretty face anymore especially in the tech world right what really enlightens them is someone that's smart and knowledgeable.

Adam Shaffer - Host 48:04

Well they look like me so they might not be as beautiful but uh so I'm hoping they're smart.

Fernanda Silva 48:11

I'm sure they look like the mom so it's okay. Yeah I'm sure um so actually Adriana so like you and I are thinking the same because my first thought on saying um confidence I'm thinking on you know higher level oh yeah women that are not sea level because they got to where they are because they have the confidence right so then you got to carry that confidence throughout um but to your point I a hundred percent agree I hated seeing the the booth babes right you can not put not just the woman but anybody in a situation where someone can think lesser of yourself because you did not prep that person properly right um agree I've seen um other companies now hiring to uh hiring people to attract them to the booth but those people now are fully trained like they have the top track on what they need to do and they just all those people and they're fantastic right um I've got to meet a couple of them uh at the Nutanix conference because I was like hey do you work for this government they're like no I'm a contractor and they fly me to a lot of oh really okay and the lady was just like I'm a flight attendant and I'm like okay but like you are amazing she had a little speaker she's like talking inviting people to come like sit down listen to the session about the like she had her track uh talk track down right yeah that's that's great she she got prepped for it so that's what I've seen now more at conferences like if someone they are hiring uh uh um and it's not even booth bay but like hiring um third party to be at their booth they're actually training them um so I really appreciate that because yeah that was our big push was actually getting college students you know instead of paying a you know an agency like a modeling agency or something that they were spending money on it's like why don't you go into universities?

AI Automation And How To Level Up

Adam Shaffer - Host 50:08

Why don't we bring students that are you know looking to break into the industry teach them about what you're looking to offer you know let them go out and kind of sell that so that was kind of the big push and and thing that we had done um which was amazing we loved it okay well staying with the lightning round this one's for Chris but you guys could jump in AI AI AI like that's all we hear that's everywhere yeah how is AI and automation changing the landscape especially with new employees yeah again you know as I had mentioned before it it's really leveling the playing field you know I I spent a lot of time studying getting certifications along the way things like that with all of these new AI tools you know you can get information fairly quickly um you know you it it will get you you know a certain way um you know or it'll get you only so far you know you do need those foundational skills you know at the end of the day because there's always going to be that human factor that needs uh to provide oversight to to anything and all things ai.

Chris Daggett 51:19

You know um you need to you know make sure that you know the the LLMs are doing what they need to do that they're not poisoned that you're getting accurate information that your data's secure you know all of those things but you know it's it's quite a game changer in the industry and you know male female whatever you know it's again it's it's gonna level level set everything. But but is it is it making is there less opportunity for people whether they're women or not to get into the industry um or is it just a different job opening up a lot of opportunity for women to get into the industry.

Adrianna Iadarola 51:57

I think it's just changing skill set I think it's just you know it's it's it's uh you got to level up you know um I think yeah I think the entry points for cybersecurity professionals used to be like a SOC analyst um now I look at it being a SOC analyst but in the same sense being maybe a level two you know going into more like digital forensics incident response being able to leverage these AI tools I think that you know what our education system needs to do is they need to switch up their criteria and like their whole you know I guess content that they're they're sharing and and making sure that they're educating students on you know what's next. I think just understanding what the market trends are are doing, right? It's very heavy in cloud it's very heavy in data you know if if you're looking for roles in the cybersecurity space as an entry level you just have to skill up and scaling up means understanding AI, being able to use automations being able to you know instead of focus on like log reviews it's like how can I dig into these actual logs and make sure that they're valid right so it's just skilling up yeah in um Adriana I've it's good for my kids yes a hundred percent I've um I interview candidates a couple months ago and every single candidate I was asking them how are they using AI now?

Fernanda Silva 53:31

And more because how it for me it's more like how are you thinking using AI to create efficiencies for the job that you currently have or coming into a position to uh manage uh partnerships how can you leverage it and make yourself better right and I think that's the key that people need to be able be able to translate when you know especially when they're interviewing is what's the value that AI is bringing to them now that's gonna translate into better relationships, more revenue, right? All the AI, which I I would I would think that probably most companies now have a policy that everybody probably has some sort of uh tool that they got to use um on a regular basis. Um but then it also goes back now to how those companies are measuring success right what are the metrics and how they're measuring that AI is actually creating those deficiencies um and making people more productive too.

Adam Shaffer - Host 54:37

But I mean but you guys don't think that it's um making it more difficult that people are losing their jobs.

Adrianna Iadarola 54:43

I mean you hear all these stories is that so so it's it's folks they're losing their jobs and they're and so they got to level leveling up yeah you gotta level up. And I mean you know looking at it from like markets shift and I definitely am seeing that in the cybersecurity space a lot of layoffs especially in leadership right um I'm seeing a lot of movement things shaking in the leadership space but what I am seeing is like you really got to get back into like specialization right and really focusing in like application security, cloud security, you know, kind of like attack surface management like knowing what's happening data um everything is about securing data but also getting to it as fast as possible. So like self-training it's like you see developers using like GitHub right and they're putting their projects in all sorts of things. Well you should be leveraging Claude Notebook LLM like having clay like certain things like whatever in your market where those AI tools and creating stuff where you can show that right like here's access to maybe my playbook of how I run through what I utilize for AI, you know, um and a lot of self-education right now. But I do see that the industry you know I think I think there's more layoffs happening than jobs opening at the moment. And I think that's just because companies are relying so much on AI that it's either breaking their business because they haven't rolled it out fast enough or they've got competition that's going to close them down or they're putting too much hefty like time into creating something AI thinking it's going to replace people and they're just going to get bit in the ass in the long run. So it's it's an unit an obstacle right now. I haven't seen as many layoffs from big companies as I was for quite some time. I mean there is quite a few and there's definitely a lot of people out of work and but the thing is is that they're generalists. When I look at people in the tech world and I see their background I see that they're generalists.

Adam Shaffer - Host 56:55

And then it's all about the specialty is everything.

Adrianna Iadarola 56:59

Well no like it's not everything it's it's it's really being specialized like in the cloud security space in app sec in you know incident response in digital forensics like in something and owning it from like soup to nuts when it comes to like all tools utilized within AI, what you can do automation you know so like I said it's scaling up yeah is the key one that AI cannot take it away especially when you're in a position where there's relationship management you're it's how you make someone feel right that's something that AI is not gonna take it away from us.

Fernanda Silva 57:41

Correct.

Chris Daggett 57:41

Yep yeah the empathy the compassion just the relationship itself you know that all those are such important pieces of the puzzle. And then really you know those alone open a lot of doors you know we spoke we spoke a lot earlier about you know networking not necessarily what you know it's

Advice For Women And How To Connect

Chris Daggett 57:58

who you know.

Adam Shaffer - Host 57:58

Um you know that's it it all plays into that so yeah okay well I'd love I'd love to talk to you guys all day but sis is great and I didn't even get through like half the stuff I wanted to but so let's let's maybe try to wrap it up with maybe uh Adriana Fernanda giving us one really good piece of advice that you would give to a woman that's considering a career in tech you don't both have to jump in at the same time well I was just thinking it the the advice that I would give a woman that's considering a career in tech is go for it.

Adrianna Iadarola 58:37

To be honest with you go for it. Um don't be afraid get in there learn um understand your community find other women that are in there and get yourself a mentor as quick as possible because that is going to give you the confidence building and the insight and you know really just get a lot of the questions you have answered. So find yourself up here.

Fernanda Silva 59:04

Oh right and Fernanda um I was just talking with my niece about that so similar to you Adriana I I told her I was just like and that's how I grew up so but it's you know you're chasing the yes think as if you already have the no you have nothing to lose if you don't get that yes. So to your point go for it right um sometimes you don't have all of the the check boxes and it's just something that you gotta stop and think because male usually think like well I can apply for this job you know I I I can do 40% of what they're asking where sometimes women we do think that we need to check all the boxes but no we don't just go for it. You just you gotta try and if you fail fail fast try it again.

Chris Daggett 59:53

Yeah I love that fail fast try it again it's good for a while I like that and Chris from a uh a male perspective what advice would you give young women considering tech you know it's it's really interesting how um you know again the the playing field is leveling off uh the you know women have more access to technology at an earlier age I think just across the board you know technology is such a huge factor you know kids are getting uh cell phones and tablets and things like that at you know like age five you know so they're exposed to technology a lot more than we have a world growing up and I think that's gonna play a big factor in you know the the women and the opportunities that women are gonna have and just the sheer skill sets and the ability to to really excel at a lot of these roles um you know I'm I'm excited about it.

Adam Shaffer - Host 1:00:58

Okay so again I can go forever but we're really gonna go over time here. So I wanted to thank you both Adriana Fernandez you guys are awesome and we definitely got to spend some time together. And Adriana if people want to get in touch with you what's the best way to is it LinkedIn and DM you?

Adrianna Iadarola 1:01:17

Yeah LinkedIn's great uh send me a connection request shoot me a message um I always like if you're sending a connection request you can add a little note so put that in there um but yes happy to connect and discuss anything when it comes to you know career advancement you're looking to build out your teams or you're looking for specific project work and support you know um my motto is like I know someone so cool uh matchmaking is is definitely at my heart.

Adam Shaffer - Host 1:01:49

And Fernanda?

Fernanda Silva 1:01:50

Same thing for me. You can find me on LinkedIn um yes please make sure you add a little note when you're sending a connection request um and I'll be responding to you happy to help you know connections even if it's just questions about the industry or hey maybe I'm connected to someone else that you know they're trying to find a job happy to have first a conversation um and you know make that connection for you.

Adam Shaffer - Host 1:02:15

Awesome and Chris you know why don't we remind everybody how to find you and hunt you down. Yeah so uh you know you can find me on LinkedIn uh send me a request I can also be reached at cdaggett at hubtech.com um yeah I mean it's reach out uh I'm gonna reach out to all of you I'll put a note I promise so thank you again for joining the show um I'm hoping the audience got a lot out of it I sure did I I'm gonna make my kids listen to this and um those sport tanks they'll probably be playing Roblox while they're doing it so they'll pretend so um but but thanks again and you know uh and and thanks to the audience for listening let's keep on going and growing thanks for tuning in to the Beyond the Firewall podcast powered by Hubtech.

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